Meet the New Hosts

On this episode, we welcome two new hosts to the podast: William Matthews and Hillary McBride. Plus, we uncover the hottest new band in worship music, Abraham's Bosom.

Mike McHargueSeason 4
Shame - Live From Seattle

This is a special live episode recorded at The Liturigsts Gathering in Seattle, WA on October 27, 2017.

Thanks Hillary McBride for joining us on this episode. Her new book is available now.

Special Announcement: We're starting something new next year for those of you who want to go deeper with topics we discuss on The Liturgists Podcast via video courses. If you'd like to get access to these first, you can  preorder the first two for the price of one here.

podcastMike McHargue
Enemies - Live from Los Angeles

This is a special live episode recorded at The Liturigsts Gathering in Los Angeles, CA on September 15, 2017.

Thanks Iris Chandler, Sarah Heath, William Matthews, Lisa Gungor, and Peter Rollins for joining us on this episode.

Mike McHargue

An exploration of what names are, how they shape us, and what happens when we change more than our label can accommodate.

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Pale Blue Dot

In this episode Science Mike and Michael Gungor talk about the psychological shift that comes with seeing the Earth from space with Guy Reid and Jacob Marshall. We also spoke with climate scientist Katharine Hayhoe about the science behind climate change, and what we can do to protect life on this planet.

Watch Guy’s film OVERVIEW here to learn more about The Overview Effect. You can see more work by Guy at

You can learn more about the work of Katharine Hayhoe on her website, including resources and videos about the science of global climate change.

Ready to act? Join The Liturgists in taking action on climate.

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Spiritual Trauma

We’ve heard thousands of stories from people who’ve been hurt by someone in their faith communities–it’s one of the most common elements among The Liturgists. In this episode we discuss spiritual trauma: what it is, how to cope with it, and how to support others through it. Michael Gungor and Science Mike spoke with Hillary McBride, Teresa Pasquale Mateus, and Carol Howard Merritt about trauma in spiritual contexts.

Hillary McBride is a registered clinical counsellor in Vancouver BC, and is a PhD candidate in Counseling Psychology at the University of British Columbia. She has her own private practice specializing in trauma and trauma therapies, both single incident traumas and complex developmental traumas. Hillary has a book coming out in October 2017 called 'mothers, daughters, and body image: learning to love ourselves as we are" about women making peace with their bodies, and learning to embrace and enjoy their bodies- shifting the tide of normative body dissatisfaction among westernized women. You can learn more about Hillary on her website.

Teresa B. Pasquale Mateus, LCSW, E-RYT 200 is a trauma psychotherapist, yoga and contemplative practice teacher and author based out of Chicago, Illinois. She is a graduate of New York University's School of Clinical Social work and Richard Rohr's Living School at the Center for Action and Contemplation. She is co-founder and Executive Director of The Mystic Soul Project whose mission is to center the voices, work, and formation for people of color in contemplation, action and healing. She is the author of Sacred Wounds: A Path To Healing from Spiritual Trauma and Mending Broken: A Personal Journey Through the Stages of Trauma & Recovery. Teresa teaches, preaches, lectures, facilitates experiential workshops and retreats around issues of trauma, spiritual journey, ritual, as well as the interconnection between contemplation and action (often with a specifically people of color centered approach). You can learn more about Teresa on her website.

Rev. Carol Howard Merritt is a minister whose writing, speaking, and teaching is anchored in theological wisdom and sociological insight. She’s a sought-after keynote speaker, especially on the topic of ministering in a new generation. The award-winning author of Tribal Church: Ministering to the Missing Generation, Reframing Hope: Vital Ministry in a New Generation, and Healing Spiritual Wounds: Reconnecting with a Loving God After Experiencing a Hurtful Church. Carol is a frequent contributor to books, websites, magazines, and journals. She is a regular writer at the Christian Century where her blog is hosted. You can learn more about Carol on her website.

Additional Resources on Spiritual Trauma

Sacred Wounds: A Path to Healing from Spiritual Trauma by Teresa B. Pasquale Mateus (a guest on this episode).

Healing Spiritual Wounds: Reconnecting with a Loving God After Experiencing a Hurtful Church by Carol Howard Merritt (a guest on this episode).

Hillary offers these suggestions for additional resources:

TW: Please read these books at your discretion. Some books may be more academic and clinical, while others are designed to help you work through trauma or support people you love with trauma. 

these books contain information and narratives about:

interpersonal violence, sexual assault, military trauma, incest, catastrophic disasters, verbal, physical, and sexual abuse, clergy abuse. 

If you are looking for a trauma therapist following listening to this episode, consider looking for a therapist who has training in:

EMDR (eye movement desensitization and reprocessing therapy)

SE (Somatic experiencing)

SP (Sensorimotor psychotherapy)

LI (Lifespan integration)

OEI (Observed and experiential integration)

Hakomi - body based therapy 


trauma and recovery: judith herman

pornography and the end of masculinity: robert jensen

getting past your past- francine shapiro

in an unspoken voice - peter levine

trauma and memory- peter levine

poly vagal theory - steven porges

living like you mean it: ronald fredericks

the body keeps the score: bessel van der kolk

loving someone with PTSD: aphrodite Matsakis

overcoming trauma and PSTD - a workbook: sheela raja

waking the tiger - peter levine

healing trauma- peter levine

attached - amir levin, rachel heller

life after trauma- a workbook: dena rosenbloom, mary beth williams

the sexual healing journey- wendy maltz

the courage to heal- ellen bass

yes means yes- jessica valenti

rape is rape: jody raphae

photo credit: mripp Right in the middle via photopin (license)
podcastMike McHargue

How can we engage in effective advocacy that creates change? And how can we do so without losing hope? We talked to two experts in the world of social justice and advocacy to find out.

Christena Cleveland is a social psychologist, public theologian, author and professor. She is the first Associate Professor of the Practice of Reconciliation at Duke University’s Divinity School and the author of Disunity in Christ: Uncovering the Hidden Forces that Keep Us Apart. You can learn more about her at

Micky is a perpetual learner, “justice doula”, consultant, facilitator, mama/sister/friend, nonviolence practitioner and contemplative activist living just south of Nashville, TN. After 10 plus years as a mother-baby specialist, trainer and author, she decided to shift back to earlier interests: theology and community development. She is a member of the co-learning community of NAIITS (North American Institute of Indigenous Theological Studies) and graduated with a Masters of Arts in Intercultural Studies. Learn more about her at

We're meeting up in Boston and Seattle in October. We'd love to see you there.

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Fake News & Media Literacy

What’s fake news, and how can we spot it? This episode is about media literacy, and offers insights on how to spot fake news, as well as media bias, and skewed data.

We talked with Clay Johnson, author of The Information Diet and the co-founder of Blue State Digital, the firm that built and managed Barack Obama’s online campaign for the presidency in 2008.

Here’s a few resources to dig deeper:

How to tell fake news from real news - TED Ed

How to Spot Fake News -

podcastMike McHargue

This episode is all about ableism–the conscious and unconcious ways that people tend to discrimnate against disabled people.

Ginny Owens joined us to talk about her experiences as a blind muscian living and working in Nashville. You can learn more about Ginny and her music at

Heather Avis told us about her children with Down syndrome, and how people respond to them. Her book, The Lucky Few: Finding God's Best in the Most Unlikely Places, comes out March 21, 2017.

Michele in NYC shared her perspective as a queer, intersectional, disabled activist. She invites you to learn more about ableism (and how to rid the world of it) at

A full transcript of this episode is available here.